Whole Grains and Yogurt… Here’s WHY!
Dr. Robert Lustig, Dhru Purohit
I sat down with Dr. Robert Lustig to talk about processed “health foods” that disguise themself as good for you, but are actually spiking your blood sugar and disrupting your gut microbiome.
Transcript
0:00are there
0:01examples of foods that many people would
0:04put into the healthier category they
0:07typically wouldn’t associate with
0:08processed foods it’s not doritos
0:11it’s not mcdonald’s
0:13um
0:14but it’s still nonetheless is refined or
0:17processed to a degree
0:19that
0:20can also contribute to these things and
0:23if so what are some examples of those
0:26foods i’ll give you two that people
0:28think are good
0:30whole grains
0:33and yogurt
0:35so let’s talk about those we’ll do one
0:37at a time whole grains
0:40so
0:42whole grain bread
0:44is it whole grain
0:47says whole grain right on the label
0:50is it whole grain
0:52what’s the definition of whole
0:56grain there is none
1:00there is none that’s the key there is no
1:03definition of whole grain
1:05because there’s a whole grains council
1:08but that doesn’t mean that there’s a
1:09definition of whole grain
1:12and this is you know where the rubber
1:13hits the road in terms of the semantics
1:16of what the food industry is doing to
1:18cover up its
1:21you know its dastardly deeds
1:24so let’s talk about whole grains here’s
1:26a grain right here okay
1:29the outside
1:30is the husk
1:32the kernel if you will okay it’s all
1:35fiber
1:36then there’s the inside
1:38the inside has two parts
1:41there’s the starchy endosperm
1:44where you get flour from
1:46and there’s also the germ
1:48and that’s where the nucleic acids the
1:50polyphenols the flavonoids all the good
1:54stuff
1:56that you’re supposed to get in whole
1:57grain
1:58is everybody with me
2:00so three parts
2:03the husk
2:04if it stays intact it’s a whole grain
2:08you swallow it
2:10okay say in a whole grain a true piece
2:12of whole grain bread and we’ll talk
2:14about what that is in a minute
2:16the enzymes in your intestine have to
2:19strip this
2:21husk
2:22off
2:23and we don’t have enzymes
2:25that work very well for that so it takes
2:27a long time before you can actually get
2:31the the what’s inside
2:33to actually be liberated so it’s further
2:36down the intestine
2:38into the jejunum into the ilium
2:41the you know the further parts of the
2:43intestine and there’s a good chance that
2:44the microbiome is going to want those
2:46for their own purposes so that you’re
2:49feeding them
2:50and so that’s why a whole grain is good
2:53because it’s a delivery system for
2:56getting the food further down the
2:58intestine to feed your bacteria
3:02now
3:04whole grain bread
3:06in the supermarket
3:09is not whole grain because the grains
3:11have been
3:12pulverized to smithereens
3:16all right
3:17and that liberated the flower
3:20it also liberated the i mean the nucleic
3:23acids and polyphenols and all that and
3:25they’re still there okay but here’s the
3:27problem those will go rancid
3:30now that they’ve been liberated
3:33so when they’re as whole grains you can
3:36store them
3:37for months at a time you know that’s
3:39what pharaoh did
3:41you know back in in egypt you know they
3:43kept them whole
3:45and so you can store them but as soon as
3:47you’ve pulverized them
3:49now they’re on the clock
3:51now they’re going to go rancid and one
3:53of the reasons food goes rancid
3:56is because of the liberation of proteins
4:00and nucleic acids which taste terrible
4:03if they if they are oxidized
4:06so the food industry
4:08will pulverize the whole grain
4:11and they will then sift off
4:14the nucleic acids
4:17you know that the germ
4:19and they will leave you with this powder
4:22that still has some fiber
4:25but not very much and it’s not
4:27surrounding
4:29the starchy endosperm
4:32now you consume it
4:33and you can’t set up that gel that i
4:36talked about before and so the starches
4:40are immediately acted on by the saliva
4:42and by the stomach uh
4:45acid and they used they start breaking
4:47up and now you liberate all of that
4:49glucose
4:50and it goes via the portal vein to the
4:52liver generates an insulin spike
4:56and you’re off to the races in terms of
4:58chronic metabolic disease
5:00the point was because the food industry
5:03because the bread company started with
5:05whole grain
5:06they’re allowed to say it’s whole grain
5:11but it’s not whole grain
5:13so what is whole grain bread what does
5:15it look like
5:16can you buy it in the store the answer
5:18is yes
5:19not at safeway
5:22but you can buy it at whole foods you
5:23can buy it at you know specialty shops
5:26that cost more
5:28it’s half the size a loaf of
5:31one pound loaf is half the size of a
5:34regular loaf
5:35and it’s dense
5:37okay
5:38the way you can tell
5:40whether or not something’s truly whole
5:42grain or not
5:43is if i threw it at your head would i
5:46knock you out
5:47[Laughter]
5:49okay if it would knock you out
5:52then it’s whole grain
5:54if it would bounce off your head and
5:56make you say what the hell did you do
5:58that for
5:59then it’s not whole grain
6:02okay because real german fitness bread
6:05okay
6:06is it it it’s sliced very thin it makes
6:10a lousy sandwich because it doesn’t have
6:12a lot of gluten liberated so it doesn’t
6:14hold together as you know spongy that’s
6:17why you know we don’t make you know kids
6:20sandwiches for school out of whole grain
6:22bread is because the you know the bread
6:25will tend to fall apart
6:28but that’s true whole grain bread so you
6:31can buy it
6:32but you can’t make a sandwich out of it
6:36so that’s one thing
6:38whole grains
6:41number two
6:42yogurt
6:44now
6:45yogurt
6:46has active cultures
6:49right
6:51well maybe
6:52maybe they do not necessarily they’re
6:55supposed to
6:56and active cultures help populate the
6:59intestine with quote good bacteria
7:03in particular lactobacillus
7:05bifidobacteria
7:07you know
7:08we’ve now found that bifidobacterium
7:10infantis seems to be a very good one is
7:12one of the things that helps babies and
7:15it seems to be a a positive one so
7:18they’re adding that now to all of these
7:20um you know to kombucha’s and to you
7:22know other fermented foods and attempt
7:25to try to get them you know down into
7:27your intestine the question is
7:30if any of these foods
7:34worked
7:37why would you have to keep eating them
7:38if any of these probiotic supplements
7:42with these
7:43various bacteria
7:44worked
7:45why would you have to keep taking them
7:48if they’re live cultures they should set
7:50up shop
7:52right they reach the intestine it’s nice
7:54and dark and murky and you know all
7:58sorts of stuff in there and certainly
8:00bacteria are growing in there why don’t
8:02they just set up shop
8:04why don’t they you know
8:06uh
8:08distribute themselves throughout the
8:09intestine and you only have to take them
8:11once
8:12and the answer is because they’re not
8:14living anymore they died and that’s the
8:16reason why you needed them is because
8:18your own died
8:21because you have an inhospitable
8:24intestinal environment
8:27so you can take probiotics till the cows
8:29come home
8:30and they’re not going to make a damn bit
8:32of difference unless they can take
8:33unless they can grow
8:35and they’re not growing
8:37the reason is because the environment in
8:39your intestine is inhospitable
8:41in the first place
8:44so you have to change
8:46the environment that the bacteria find
8:49themselves in
8:51so you don’t need a
8:52probiotic you need something that will
8:55let the bacteria grow
8:57you need a
8:58prebiotic
9:01that’s food for bacteria that’s what a
9:03prebiotic is
9:06well what’s the prebiotic that’s in real
9:09food
9:10in all real food
9:13fiber
9:15because that’s the food for bacteria
9:17that’s what bacteria chew on that’s what
9:20bacteria use to make short chain fatty
9:23acids which are not only beneficial for
9:25them but beneficial for you too because
9:27they suppress the cytokine response they
9:29suppress the inflammatory response
9:31they’ve been shown to be
9:33anti-inflammatory
9:35anti-cardiovascular disease
9:37you need those short chain fatty acids
9:40acetate propionate butyrate the only way
9:43to get them is to let your bacteria
9:47chew on fiber
9:49well the fiber’s in the real food but
9:51it’s been taken out of the processed
9:52food
9:54so
9:55you have to protect your liver
9:57so you don’t get the insulin resistance
9:59and you have to feed your gut
10:02so you don’t get the inflammation which
10:03will also lead to the insulin resistance
10:07you do those two things protect the
10:10liver feed the gut
10:13and now you’ve got
10:14metabolic health
10:17but there’s only one
10:19substrate
10:21that does that
10:23that’s called real food
10:25for someone who’s
10:26seeing and this happens a lot for people
10:28as they start to clean up their diet a
10:30little bit and they’re wary of a lot of
10:32the gluten-free foods which actually
10:33spike their blood sugar more than even
10:35just regular you know
10:37true
10:38whole wheat right in your example
10:41so as people start to clean up their
10:42diet
10:44sometimes they end up
10:46withering down and not having as much
10:49fiber in some instances
10:52there are individuals who also
10:54have very reactive
10:57gut microbiomes and intestinal systems
11:01because of
11:02a lifelong of antibiotics and other
11:05challenges that you led to earlier
11:07if you had to
11:09highlight a few fibers
11:12that are um
11:15gentle enough that people can start to
11:17work their way up so that they don’t
11:19have that heavy response of bloating or
11:21other challenges that people often write
11:23into this podcast saying like hey i’m
11:24trying to include more fiber and
11:26diversity but i’m having a lot of
11:27challenges would you give a few an
11:29honorary mention
11:32okay
11:33so
11:34the fiber in real food
11:37does work but it doesn’t work for
11:39everybody
11:41real food usually works there are people
11:44who are quote
11:45gluten sensitive
11:47i’m one of them by the way that doesn’t
11:49mean you have celiac disease and i
11:51learned this the hard way and
11:54i
11:55learned it from the head of pediatric
11:58gastroenterology at the university of
11:59chicago
12:01one of the original celiac researchers
12:02his name is stefano guandalini
12:05okay who
12:06back in the early 80s he was the one who
12:08figured out this whole tissue
12:09transglutaminase business and you know
12:12celiac and he ultimately you know came
12:14to us chicago and he’s now had a
12:16division there and he’s the one who
12:18explained all this to me
12:20so
12:21a lot of people say
12:23they’re gluten sensitive
12:26but they don’t have celiac disease
12:29they’re not gluten sensitive
12:32they’re wheat sensitive
12:36that’s different right and here’s how we
12:39know that that’s true
12:41you take their white cells people like
12:43myself
12:44okay who
12:45i i don’t eat regular bread anymore i
12:48eat gluten-free bread
12:50not because i’m trying to escape gluten
12:53i’m trying to escape wheat
12:57right and the only way to escape wheat
12:58is to have gluten free bread
13:00so here’s what happens you take their
13:02white cells you throw them in a dish and
13:06you throw
13:07gluten on them nothing happens
13:10you throw rye on them
13:13nothing happens
13:14you throw
13:17barley on them
13:18nothing happens you throw wheat on them
13:21they go bonkers
13:25all right now in a celiac patient
13:28you throw wheat barley rye or gluten and
13:31they go bonkers no matter what so
13:34clearly these people
13:36are
13:37having a reaction to wheat
13:40but they’re not having a reaction to
13:42gluten
13:43it turns out
13:44wheat is a very complex
13:47it is hexaploid not diploid there are
13:50700 different antigens
13:52in wheat
13:55the two that make up gluten called
13:57gluten in and gliadin
14:00are the ones that you know celiac
14:02patients
14:02are allergic to
14:04you can be allergic to one of the other
14:05698
14:08and different people are allergic to
14:09different ones so there’s no easy test
14:12the point is
14:13that the people who say that they are
14:15gluten sensitive are
14:18not
14:19they are wheat sensitive
14:22so instead of calling this non-celiac
14:24gluten sensitivity we should be calling
14:26it non-celiac wheat intolerance
14:30this is the point that guandolini makes
14:32and i agree with him based on the data
14:34and based on my own experience as well
14:36right so i stay away from wheat
14:40but i can have a beer
14:43and it won’t affect me in any way shape
14:45or form it’s perfectly fine
14:48so
14:49a lot of people are consuming
14:51gluten-free
14:54cakes gluten-free um
14:57uh you know uh breads etc so they’re
15:00using different flours and a lot of
15:02those flours are very high in sugar for
15:04instance sorghum flour and so yes you
15:07get end up with increased glucose spikes
15:10and a lot of those flowers of course are
15:13devoid of their
15:15fiber and so you’re going to get even
15:17bigger spikes and so yes we’ve learned
15:19through continuous glucose monitoring
15:21that these gluten-free products are
15:23particularly egregious in terms of
15:25metabolic health
15:27so
15:28yes you do need to watch your wheat
15:33intake if you’re one of these people
15:35but
15:37you don’t need to watch your gluten
15:39intake and what you really need to do
15:42is eat real food
15:44hey youtube if you enjoyed what you just
15:45saw keep watching for more great content
15:48on how to improve your brain and your
15:50life
15:51food’s probably a lot more complicated
15:52than supplements
15:54that if i reorganize my diet maybe i’d
15:56get some some other things that’d be
15:58good for me rather than just focusing
16:00what to not eat now i’m focused on what
16:02i have to eat
